Messaje de Usador:StevenJ81/Archive 1

Discusiones activas

Repuesta tadre / Late replyTrocar

Venido bueno Steven / Welcome Steven

En primero quero dezir que me alegrì muncho de verte aquí en la Vikipedya Judeo-Española. Yay muncho tiempo que dingunos hazen un esforço parâ amijorarla.

Fisrt of all, I want to say that I'm very happy to see you in the Judaeo-Spanish Wikipedia. Since a while, almost nobody was giving any effort to better it.

Escúsame muncho parâ la tadre repuesta mía, estava muy muy ocupado en mis tiempos d'alcavo. Y munchas gracias parâ ajustar el Kalendario Ebreo a la Primera Hoja.

I'm very sorry about my late reply, I was extremely busy lately. And thank you very much for adding the Hebrew Calender on the Main Page.

Yo conoçco a Maor X de cara en cara. Penso que y él no estuvo muy aktivo en la Vikipedya en los tiempos d'alcavo. Estávamos lavorando con él enjuntos en unos projetos ma daínda no se escaparon. Io estuve mas aktivo por d'alcavo (cuando topì tiempo) en el projeto del Viksionario Judeo-Español. Penso que un Viksioner es muy importante como un ayudante léksiko a la Vikipedya.

I know Maor X personally. I think he hasn't been very active neither lately in the Vikipedya. We were working together on some projects but they didn't finish yet. I have been more active lately (when I could find time) in the project of the Judaeo-Spanish Wiktionary. I think that a Wiktionary is an important lexical help for the Wikipedia.

Penso que es importante que tengamos dar y aver de oy endelantre, parâ desvelopar y amijorar y la Vikipedya y el Viksioner. Te quero de muevo rengraciar por todos tus kontribüsyones.

I think it's important that we stay in touch from now on, in order to develop and better both the Wikipedia and the Wiktionary. I want to thank you again for all your contributions.

Buenas noches y al vermos / Good night and see you :) --Universal Life (discusión) 23:43 20 Jul 2015 (UTC)

@Universal Life and Maor X: I am delighted to see you both back—and both today, as it happens.
As you see from my user page, I don't really speak Judaeo-Español, and just barely (kinda/sorta) can figure out what I'm reading. On this round of visiting this wiki, I came to build a calendar template ({{Oy}}). I then decided to add the Hebrew date to the home page, as you saw; in that case, once you two didn't respond, I had a Steward temporarily unlock the page for me. And then, finally, I decided that I didn't like the fact that most of the articles written in Hebrew alef-bet were nevertheless left-justified, so I wanted to fix them. But over the course of starting to scan those articles, I ran into some inappropriate content. So I decided to ask Stewards for the admin tools on a temporary basis so that I could clean up as I went along. So that's where we are right now.
So far,
  1. I right-justified all the Hebrew-script pages, and fitted them with the tabs you created for the home page so that it would be easy to shift back and forth between twinned articles.
  2. I did the same for twinned templates and twinned categories. In the case of categories, if a category had only one entry, and its twin also had only one entry, I deleted both. If there were three entries between them, I merged them. If there were three entries each, I kept both. I won't be insulted if you undo any of this, but I thought that would be appropriate.
  3. I created a couple of subst:-able templates to speed the process ({{TabsH}} and {{TabsL}}; {{RTL top}} and {{RTL bottom}}), but if one of you were willing to write documentation for them it would be great
I mostly can't edit directly in Judaeo-Español, so I've found a couple of other useful things to do:
  • I'm going through pages without interlanguage links and trying to find matches. I'm at the end of the G's so far.
  • I am told that we get random access from Wikidata on July 29. Someone over there has told me how to get the wikidata-driven iw links onto the Hebrew-script pages, even where the Latin-script page is the one in wikidata. So after July 29 I'll work on that.
Since I don't speak the language, I probably shouldn't be a permanent administrator here. If you will be back around a little more regularly I will be glad to step down after my three months if you wish. If it would be helpful for you if I kept the tools, then based on your judgment I would be fine with that. And in any event please feel free to add {{Usador Administrador}} to your user pages (and fix the language) if you like. And that's all the news for now. StevenJ81 (discusión) 02:31 21 Jul 2015 (UTC)

A couple of additional questionsTrocar

  1. Someone recently asked me about this alphabet-converter system used on some other wikis (like Kazakh and Serbian). It seems you looked into this at one point, and were told that the demand is not high enough. Do I have that right? In principle, I would want to do it anyway, because a Hebrew-script Judeo-Spanish is really more authentic and definitive than any Latin-script transcription. But in the execution of it, even if we could get the powers that be to install it here, I'm not sure how we'd use it:
    • Which Latin transcription would we use? Or would we give a choice of all of them (four on the current home page)?
    • How in the world do you do vowels? It just feels like there is far too much variation on vowels to make it work.
    • It would probably break down on Hebrew/Aramaic-derived vocabulary that is written traditionally (like Shabat > שבת, and not שאבאט).
    Any further thoughts?
  2. Do you have any idea whom I ought to talk to about having the bidi buttons added to the editing boxes here? See yiwiki, which I think invented them, or Wikidata or Meta, where they are currently in use. These would be massively useful here, and might well make it easier for people to write Hebrew-script articles. StevenJ81 (discusión) 14:17 22 Jul 2015 (UTC)

@StevenJ81, sorry for the delay again, real life events have been keeping me really busy...Coming back to the topic, I've lots to say, so I need to go point-by-point.--Universal Life (discusión) 11:20 27 Jul 2015 (UTC)

Universal Life, it's not a problem at all. Having you here sometimes to help, or at least to consult with, is extremely helpful to me. For example: I tried very, very hard to find online resources to support the calendar issue. I had a hard time finding very much, to be honest with you. So just having you here for me to consult with is enormously helpful.
I understand not necessarily being able to spend a lot of time. I spend too much, probably, as it is. I'll be honest: if you can just check for questions from me once a week, for 10-15 minutes, it would save me a ton of time, too. I'll respond to some other issues point by point below. (This week might take more than 15 minutes, but I'll try to keep it down after this.) StevenJ81 (discusión) 13:53 27 Jul 2015 (UTC)
Thank you Steven :) It's true that there aren't many sources online...But if you have the chance to visit the Hebrew University Library in Jerusalem. There, there are many many resources. Whenever there's any info you're looking for, you can also just ask me, I'll try to do my best :) Actually, we can do better, in order to communicate much more easily, I think it would be nice to speak through email or facebook, what do you think? --Universal Life (discusión) 06:47 2 Set 2015 (UTC)
First, thank you for the very comprehensive responses below!
If I am not in Israel sooner, I will be there in 2017: my son is an עולה חדש and will be married then. (He is at Technion now.)
E-mail is a great idea. (I don`t use Facebook. If I did, you`d probably never see me again. I spend too much time here as it is.:) ) Write me here. And I use WhatsApp, also, so on email we can sort that out. StevenJ81 (discusión) 15:36 2 Set 2015 (UTC)

Hebrew calender/OyTrocar

I want to start with the calender. Thank you very much for the {{Oy}} template and the Hebrew dates. I'm very slow with templates, so I need to tell you some little details/little mistakes that we need to change. The traditional Judaeo-Spanish speaking Sephardic community's Hebrew calender format is not exactly the same with the one used in Israel. And similarly the Sephardic pronunciation of the months is not the same as in Modern Hebrew (just like Yiddish). The Hebrew/Aramaic names of the months in Judaeo-Spanish are as follows:

Ebreo (OU) Ebreo (AY) Aramí (OU) Aramí (AY) Span
Nissán Nisan Nissannu Nisanu March-April
Iyyar Iyar Ayaru Ayaru April-May
Siván Sivan Simanu Simanu May-June
Tammuz Tamuz Du'uzu Duuzu June-July
Av Av Abu Abu July-August
Elul Elul Ululu Ululu August-September
Tishrí Tishri Tashretu Tashretu September-October
Marḥeshván Marheshvan Arakshamma Arakshama October-November
Kislev Kislev Kislimu Kislimu November-December
Teveth Teved Tabetu Tabetu December-January
Shevat Shevat Shabatu Shabatu January-February
Adhar Adar Addaru Adaru February-March

I think that the Aramaic names were reserved in some specific use in the religious circles, so I don't think it's necessary to add to the Wikipedia, though I wouldn't oppose. In all the journals published, mostly, there were four calenders called:

  • The main one (Hebrew calender) - on top and under it:
  • A la Grega (on the left)
  • A la Turca (in the middle)
  • A la Franca (on the right, the Modern Gregorian calender)

A la Turca was the Muslim calender used as Sephardim lived in the Ottoman Empire. Both a la Turca and a la Grega is not used anymore in the Judaeo-Spanish speaking communities. So if we wanted to name the two other calenders we use, we could call them a la Franca and a la Ebrea.

Lastly, about the calender format in the Hebrew script, using the transcription of the Latin calenders (לוניס 27 גֿולייו 2015 - 11 אב 5775) is more proper than using (יום שני כ"ז בגֿוליו 2015 - י"א באב 5775). I don't know how to change it, so may be you could help me with it :) --Universal Life (discusión) 11:20 27 Jul 2015 (UTC)

OK. This is really, really helpful. Let me respond on a couple of things. (You may want to keep a copy of my sandbox open in another tab):
  1. It's easy enough to move the table you created above to the article Kalendario ebreo.
  2. For both the {{Oy}} template and for other purposes, better to use versions of Marheshvan than Heshvan? It's a question I needed to deal with at Latin Wikipedia, where most sources are classical and therefore use Marchesuan. It's also, oddly enough, a question I've dealt with at English Wikipedia, because while Marheshvan is more formally correct, Heshvan is more commonly used in the Anglophone community.
    For the here and now, I'd probably use a version of Heshvan in the {{Oy}} template, Marheshvan in the home page templates, but do something like Marcheshvan (Heshvan) in tables like the one above. I'd appreciate your thoughts.
    I checked some old Ladino dictionaries and they prefer Ḥeshván. I think both are used in the Jewish community in Turkey, however Ḥeshván is much more popular. So, I think we should use Ḥeshván in the template and the main page. --Universal Life (discusión) 07:00 2 Set 2015 (UTC)
  3. Related to the previous question: There is now a parser function ({{#time: ...}}) that can return a Hebrew date, given the right parameters. It's easy to go change the outputs of these if we want. So the question is: for months of the year (Gregorian and Hebrew) and days of the week, what values should the server return in this wiki? (It would probably return the same in other lad projects, I'll add.)
    • The current values are the ones returned here in my sandbox. Do you think that I should replace these with the OU versions in the table above? The AY versions? Something else? It's also possible to make them come out like Marḥeshván/מרחשון, which is what the Serbo-Croatian Wikipedia does with Latin and Cyrillic.
      I think the best would be if you can use the OU versions in the table (except for the Marheshvan which should be Ḥeshván). One thing I saw that I need to correct is that, the word oy (today) isn't spelled הויי in Hebrew but spelled אויי :) --Universal Life (discusión) 07:07 2 Set 2015 (UTC)
  4. For the home pages:
    • Right now, the AY version of the page uses a completely AY transcription for dates, based on an AY calendar I found on line. The other three Latin-script transcriptions use what the server returns, which I gather was based on OU. Can you create a list of names of days of the week and months of the year (both calendars) for OF and OT? If so, I can easily make those versions of the home page look correct.
      I'm going to create a list now below. --Universal Life (discusión) 07:55 2 Set 2015 (UTC)
    • For Hebrew script, see here in sandbox for how I thought to transcribe days of the week into Hebrew. But I couldn't find a confirming source, so I left them in pure Hebrew for now. If you tell me those are correct, I'll go ahead and change those. For months, based on an AY calendar I found, I used as follows: {{#switch:{{#time:n}}|1=אינירו|2=פֿיבֿרירו|3=מארסו|4=אבֿריל|5=מאייו|6=גֿוניו|7=גֿוליו|8=אוגוסטו|9=סיפּטימברי|10=אוקטוברי|11=נובֿימברי|12=דיסימברי}}. Again, don't worry about the template markup; just let me know that the month names are ok and I will fix.
      I created a table including all (main) forms, so you can use them to check and correct if necessary :) --Universal Life (discusión) 09:45 2 Set 2015 (UTC)
  5. I'd guess that a la Grega was probably the Julian calendar, BTW. StevenJ81 (discusión) 14:24 27 Jul 2015 (UTC)
OK. Thank you for the lists. I will work on this, along the lines you have suggested. (At the article Kalendario ebreo, I will include both short- and long-versions of Ḥeshván/Marḥeshván. If we ever write an article on Ḥeshván, we will also need to include both forms. Everywhere else, I will use the short form.) And I will fix my Hoy, oy, oy template! StevenJ81 (discusión) 15:41 2 Set 2015 (UTC)
The download I found from ANL had different OE from yours (see just above), but also different AY from yours (see by your table down at the bottom). Any thoughts, especially about AY? StevenJ81 (discusión) 20:03 2 Set 2015 (UTC)

Articles written with Hebrew charactersTrocar

The original orthography for printed Judaeo-Spanish (JS) has always been the Rashi script. All newspapers and books were printed in this version of Hebrew letters until late 19th century. Usage of square Hebrew letters (called Merubbá') was reserved to titles (of books, chapters etc.) only. Today most users of Merubbá' for an entire text of JS, are descendents of Sephardim living in modern Israel. Many also know the original Rashi version of the Hebrew alphabet. Me and MaorX, we have been wanting a long time to use Rashi in the Ladino WP. However, as Rashi doesn't have its own set of chacters in the Unicode, and is only one of the fonts of Hebrew Unicode it becomes very difficult to implement this task. Perhaps, if the font for the Hebrew articles is set to Rashi, then all readers could read Hebrew-charactered articles in the Rashi script. I don't know how to do this.

Secondly, I cordially want to thank and congratulate you for performing the huge task of right-justifying all Hebrew-script pages, dealing with tabs and categories on a number of repeating pages!! :))) (And I appreciate much the interlanguage links as well;) )

And lastly, could you explain me subst:-able templates that you created and their usages. Thanks --Universal Life (discusión) 11:59 27 Jul 2015 (UTC)

Rashi script. Let me throw out a couple of questions.
  1. Is there an open source Rashi script font out there? If not, just forget this entirely, because using a non-open-source font on this project (as a default font) won't be allowed.
    If so, tell me what it is, and we can try a test on a Hebrew-script page or two to see if it works. (Part of the issue with this, though, is that one's browser would have to be set to allow the page to provide its own fonts. Most people's browsers work that way by default, but if your browser isn't set that way, it will always fill in its own default Hebrew fonts, and you'll never see if the test works.) But: you don't want a situation where this depends entirely on browser-side fonts, where if people don't have the right font installed they'll see nothing but boxes. That wouldn't be a good thing.
    There may be some more involved approaches using code pages, but I don't know that stuff so well myself.
    Inserted at 20:20 27 Jul 2015 (UTC)
    I found an open-source Rashi font at However, in order for this to work optimally here, we would need that font to be served from our project server. How we get that done, whether or not we can get that done, etc., is far beyond what I know. I have a list of things I want to do here that I'm compiling in my sandbox, and I'll add that. But I'm not sure whom to ask. Do you have any idea? (And this doesn't take away my question in the next paragraph.) StevenJ81 (discusión) 20:20 27 Jul 2015 (UTC) (end insertion)
  2. However: think again about whether using Rashi script as default here is really the best choice for this project. I fully appreciate that Rashi script is the traditional one to use, and fluent speakers of JS will know how to read it. But JS speakers do know how to read meruba fonts, and keeping the default font as a meruba font could make the project that much more accessible to that many more people. (And see above: if most strangers will see nothing but empty boxes because they don't have the right fonts installed, you don't want that as a default.) I think you and Maor X need to decide that; I'll help you as I can.
Right-justifying: Glad to help. (;-)
Templates: Here's how the subst:-able templates work. They're just shortcuts for things that would need to be done on many pages:
  • {{subst:TabsL|Name|שם}} is used on the Latin-script page and puts the following on the page:


  • {{subst:TabsH|Name|שם}} is used on the Hebrew-script page and puts the following on the page:


  • The versions {{TabsLXK}} and {{TabsHXK}} are used on template and category pages in a similar way.
  • {{subst:RTL top}} on a Hebrew-script page creates an html <div> with right-to-left text, right-justified, with a fixed right margin. {{subst:RTL bottom}} just closes that <div>. {{subst:RTL TOC}} tries to add in a properly-aligned table of contents in articles long enough to need one. I couldn't get the TOC to entirely right-justify, but the resulting TOC is at least neat and in the right place. StevenJ81 (discusión) 16:07 27 Jul 2015 (UTC)

Adminship and toolsTrocar

First of all, I think that the Ladino WP is very happy to have you as an admin. You've been helping a lot. You're helping to develop the WP. Therefore I don't see any objection of you being an administrator for now. I think that the issue of permanent or temporary is not very important neither. So please don't feel any pressure on stepping down. And about Judaeo-Spanish, I could help you learn it, if you would like :) --Universal Life (discusión) 12:10 27 Jul 2015 (UTC)

The only issue to temporary vs. permanent is that for temporary I have to post a notice here every three months, and then go to the stewards at Meta-Wiki and get them to renew my tools. So if you are inviting me to become permanent, then I'd ask you to go to Vikipedya:Kandidaturas a Administrador and nominate me to be a permanent Administrator (and, I guess, Bureaucrat, since that seems to be the way things work on this wiki). This nomination would have to run seven days, I guess, and as long as we don't get objections, then I would become permanent.
I would never be comfortable writing a nomination for myself for permanent status, since I can't write in JS. But you could do that, and you could say in the nomination that I'm helping and improving the wiki, so you would support me even though I don't speak JS. (And yes, I'd love to learn it, but that's a discussion for another time.:) ) StevenJ81 (discusión) 16:13 27 Jul 2015 (UTC)
I nominated you as admin :) --Universal Life (discusión) 10:13 2 Set 2015 (UTC)
Thank you. I even understood what you wrote (more or less). :) How do I reply there, "I accept the nomination. Thank you."?
I don't think many people are watching that page, though. I know that after 15 days, with one positive vote and no negative, you are allowed to promote me (and have the tools to do that). While I don't want to put extra work on you, if there are a handful of contributors here you would feel comfortable asking to participate, I'd feel better if there were at least a handful of !votes there. תודה! StevenJ81 (discusión) 15:50 2 Set 2015 (UTC)

Wikidata / Bidi buttons?Trocar

I'm sorry but I couldn't understand these very much:

  • I am told that we get arbitrary access from Wikidata on July 29 August 3. Someone over there has told me how to get the wikidata-driven iw links onto the Hebrew-script pages, even where the Latin-script page is the one in wikidata. So after July 29 August 3 I'll work on that.
  • Do you have any idea whom I ought to talk to about having the bidi buttons added to the editing boxes here? See yiwiki, which I think invented them, or Wikidata or Meta, where they are currently in use. These would be massively useful here, and might well make it easier for people to write Hebrew-script articles.

What are bidi buttons? What's yiwiki? --Universal Life (discusión) 12:16 27 Jul 2015 (UTC)

Oh, did you mean yi.wikipedia, the Yiddish Wikipedia? --Universal Life (discusión) 12:18 27 Jul 2015 (UTC)
  1. The way Wikidata works, only one article from each wiki can be connected directly to each data item. So, for example, the Wikidata item for Spain (d:Q29) connects only to lad:Espanya, but not to lad:איספאנײה. In turn, lad:Espanya shows the whole range of interwiki links included from the Wikidata item, but lad:איספאנײה only shows whatever interwiki links are incorporated manually. What this arbitrary access thing would do (I hope) is allow us to easily incorporate the entire list of interwiki links even on lad:איספאנײה. It doesn't change things in the other direction, but that's not as important. If you click on the "Ladino" iw link from anywhere else, you'd still get only to lad:Espanya directly, but then we have a tab at the top of that page to get you to lad:איספאנײה pretty easily. But this way, if you were sitting on lad:איספאנײה, you'd have the whole list of iwlinks right there.
  2. There is a gadget on Yiddish Wikipedia called (in English) "Directional editing control script (authors Brion and Splarka)".‎ Turn that gadget on. Then go to any page on Yiddish Wikipedia and edit it. You'll get buttons at the top controlling whether the editing box is ltr or rtl. I've found that really useful for doing template work. For a wiki like this, where there are both ltr pages and rtl pages, it would be incredibly helpful to have this. StevenJ81 (discusión) 16:24 27 Jul 2015 (UTC
  1. Using Wikidata arbitrary access and a Lua module donated by a user (d:User:Innocent bystander), we are now able to show the whole range of available interwiki links on both the Latin-script and Hebrew-script version of paired pages. I have not fully implemented this as of now, but you can see examples at Astronomiya and Abruzzo and their paired pages.
    My intention is to modify things at Wikidata so that the Wikidata item always points directly to the Latin-script page, while we will use the module to create the links on the Hebrew-script page. Since Judeo-Spanish is originally a Hebrew-script language, that's a little backwards, unfortunately. But since the great majority of pages here are written in Latin script, I thought that approach would be better for consistency. If you'd like me to do this the other way around, let me know.
  2. I have installed two gadgets in this Wiki. See Especial:Instrumenticos. One is "HotCat", which is widely available across projects, so you probably know it. The other is a BiDi editing gadget that was invented at Yiddish Wikipedia and is now also installed at Meta-Wiki and Wikidata.
    For this one, go to Especial:Preferencias#mw-prefsection-gadgets and turn that gadget on. Then, go to any page and start editing. You will see five gray buttons at the top of the editing box: [Default], [dir=ltr], [dir=rtl], [bidi=normal], [bidi=override]. These buttons let you set the directionality of the editing box. So, for example, if you want to write a Hebrew-script article, you press the "dir=rtl" button, and then the editing box becomes a rtl editing box, the same as on Hebrew and Yiddish Wikipedias. In a wiki like this, where people write in both directions, I thought this gadget would be really valuable to include.
    It would probably be good to have proper Judeo-Spanish documentation for these. That's beyond my language skills.
StevenJ81 (discusión) 18:42 13 Ago 2015 (UTC)
Steven, I want to communicate with you, as soon as I can. I couldn't even finish my first reply. Have a nice "semanada" :) --Universal Life (discusión) 19:31 16 Ago 2015 (UTC)
Wow, I did those preference settings and it's great! Thank you so much :) --Universal Life (discusión) 10:21 2 Set 2015 (UTC)
I'm going to add one more: an automatic link on the top menu to one's sandbox. On eswiki, sandbox is "Taller". What would you call a sandbox here? StevenJ81 (discusión) 15:53 2 Set 2015 (UTC)

Alphabet/Orthography ConversionTrocar

Hi Steven, before I will reply to the the above conversations, I wanted to continue by finishing my last reply, which I hadn't been able to finish...There were 3 more topics I needed to speak about, one of which is the problem of orthography conversion.

In 2011, I was in the Wikimania in Haifa and I'd proposed a conversion, just like the Serbian WP. They had asked me to develop bi-directional conversion rules, I'd worked on it, however I don't think it's possible. "Ortoģrafía Unida" and "Ortoģrafía Ebrea" are at the two opposing edges of the spectrum, the rest are so phonetic that they could easily be bi-directionally converted with simple rules. As Ortoģrafía Unida is a multidialectal and comparatively deeper orthography, all other orthographies can be easily converted from it. However articles written in other orthographies unfortunately can't always be easily converted to it on an automatic format, as this script takes into consideration (just like the Hebrew Ort.) whether the word is Hebrew/Aramaic in origin. And again unfortunately, no other orthography can't be converted automatically from the Hebrew one. די could be easily "de" and "di".

In spite of all these difficulties, manual conversion is always feasible and I would like very much to have a Serbian WP-like tool in our Vikipedya :) What should we do in order to achieve that? --Universal Life (discusión) 19:56 1 Set 2015 (UTC)

With respect to Latin orthography, I guess part of the question is how much we should or can push one point of view. I'm personally a fan of an approach like OU, because it better preserves the spelling of the original, parent language (usually medieval or early modern Spanish in this case, but sometimes other languages like Turkish). However: it feels like the approach with the strongest base of institutional support is AY, because of its support by Autoridad Nasionala del Ladino. In principle, we should poll "the community" and ask what they want. But "the community" hardly exists right now, so that's not really a feasible approach. :( And to be fair, this is a small wiki; we should encourage participation, and if people want to contribute in AY or OF, I'm not sure we should discourage that.
The form that "real" JS speakers all understand, we presume, is "Ortoģrafía Ebrea". It's unambiguous and more authentic. But there are ZERO articles on this wiki written only in OE. And there are also ZERO articles where in the Latin-Hebrew pair the Hebrew version is more complete.
So here's what I would suggest. Our tool needs to be able to convert all other orthographies TO "Ortoģrafía Ebrea". It does not need to go in the other direction, and it does not need to convert between Latin orthographies ... because everyone can read OE, we presume. The standard for writing on this wiki will be "any" of the Latin orthographies, not OE. (If someone actually writes in OE, we'll convert it to something else, and then let the tool convert it back.) If someone only understands Latin orthography, they'll have to do their best, like they do now. More below... StevenJ81 (discusión) 01:52 2 Set 2015 (UTC)
One question, though: Can a tool get most Hebrew/Aramaic words right going TO OE? Shabat/Shabbat needs to go to שבת and not שאבאט. Maybe words like that need a special template, call it "zzz", so that {{zzz|Shabat|שבת}} shows "Shabat" in (whatever) Latin orthography, but overrides the rules of the tool to show שבת in OE. StevenJ81 (discusión) 02:22 2 Set 2015 (UTC)
I have to mention that ANL has nowhere near the power that RAE has for example. Its name even is grammatically wrong: words ending in -al in Judaeo-Spanish never have a feminine version in -ala...That would be Modern Spanish. That's; nasyonal is both masculine and feminine, there is no "nasyonala". And Ladino is more of an exonym than endonym for the language. It's like if they made a centre for the English language and called it: "Nacional Authority of Anglais". Its a centre, but not a language academy or institution in its true sense. Just as its name is more Castilian (modern Spanish) than Judaeo-Spanish, the same goes for its publications. There are many other similar centres around the world.
However, not to be misunderstood, I don't discourage in anyway, anyone who writes in any of the orthographies.
I've to correct something you mentioned above. The Hebrew Orthography is unfortunately NOT understood by most of "real" JS speakers. What you say was true for the end-19th century. However since than, many speakers have passed to other orthographies (Latin, Greek, Cyrillic, Arabic). The first (and the longest) Latin orthography style that was used is the OF, the French one (since the 1860s).
Today, (not possible to know for sure but) best estimates would say that 75% of speakers use the Latin alphabet, while those who use the Hebrew alphabet (including the Rashi) would be around max. 15%. The rest would be like 7% Cyrillic, 2% Arabic and 1% Greek.
Thus, everyone can't read OE. There are like 7000 JS speakers in Turkey, mostly nobody there can read it. There are maybe 60,000 speakers in Israel, I would be really surprised if more than 1/4 of them could read it.
About the converter, I think it should be (and will be) able to convert:
  1. Any script into OE
  2. To any script from OU
  3. All Latin scripts from one to another (except for "to OU").
And OU is such a script that automatically "Shabbath" will go to "שבת". However I don't how that would work with other scripts that say Shabad, Chabad or Şabad. --Universal Life (discusión) 10:52 2 Set 2015 (UTC)
  • Especially since "Chabad" is the most common Latin orthography for חב"ד‬.
No, I'm guessing the way to handle that issue is for there to be a template that overrides the automatic script when the author specifies a spelling. We'd want that not only for שבת, but also for phrases like "Binyamin Netanyahu=בנימין נתניהו" and the like.
  • More generally, I'm counting on you to create or arrange for a conversion script. That is far beyond my technical expertise.
a. We will have to decide on a default behavior if someone is looking for OU, but the page was written some other way.
b. As I said, it doesn't look like much totally original material was ever written here in OE. If someone ever does do that, someone (not me!) will have to convert it manually to some Latin script for the script tool to work properly. (It's possible, I suppose, to write a second script to convert from OE to a Latin script, but only to create a draft. The final copy would have to fixed manually.)
  • I'm not defending ANL at all. Who is RAE?
  • I didn't realize that most people now cannot read OE. I assumed otherwise, because it's most authentic. Thank you for the correction. StevenJ81 (discusión) 16:13 2 Set 2015 (UTC)

Problem of TitleTrocar

Unless, we get a Serbian WP-like tool, we actually have a problem of title. We have 5 orthographies in use: OU, AY, OF, OT, OE. Ortoģrafía Ebrea is not a problem, as the title in that orthography would always be different...However in the other 4 ones, sometimes the titles are exactly the same. For example a proper name would always be spelled same in each (Charles Darwin), there are cases where one or two would be different and the rest would be the same.

An immediate solution comes to mind as using (OF), (OT) etc... next to the titles, but it does really not look that clean or nice. What do you think? --Universal Life (discusión) 20:06 1 Set 2015 (UTC)

Following up on my suggestion above, there will typically be only one Latin version per article, so we won't need to add a legend to the title. I do think we should have some template on each page to show which orthography is used, so that style stays consistent. (That exists on a number of AY pages right now; see Kateggoría:Vikipedya:AY.) When our tool shows OE, that template should be hidden.
I have mixed feelings as to how important supporting OT is. Other than the OT version of the first page, are there many OT pages here? StevenJ81 (discusión) 01:57 2 Set 2015 (UTC)
I don't understand how there could be only one Latin version per article. For example, someone could want to read about (and contribute to) Atatürk in the Turkish or French orthography. It's easy to do it with an article on Shabat as there would be:
The tags OT, OF etc. are quite recent (me and MaorX had decided to put it up, you know) and I think what we need is to draw users to the WP. There are thousands of people using the OT, we just need to advertise properly :)--Universal Life (discusión) 11:12 2 Set 2015 (UTC)
The idea I proposed, remember, was not to worry about converting between Latin scripts, and only about converting FROM any Latin script TO Hebrew script. So in that case, I was assuming that the Latin version that is already there is always the only one. Based on your suggestion, that's no longer what we're thinking about. However, what you're suggesting still requires a lot of manual work, as you'll see.
Mostly, I'm not worried about labeling versions as they appear to readers. If you go on Serbocroatian or Kazakh, you see that you choose the script up top, and the article automatically appears correctly, including its title. The only situation where that could matter for us is if someone wants OU, but it's not available. I'd rather let that appear as a hatnote. Otherwise, as we test this, we will be able to tell by inspection whether the conversion script is working correctly. I would worry about the following:
  • We need to make sure that the conversion script can really start from any orthography and convert to any other. If this means that every page needs to be labeled with a non-displaying template so the conversion script knows what it's seeing, we'll (not me!) have to do that manually, page by page.
  • Any individual page has to be written in only one orthography. It's too complicated to let a single page mix and match. Edit window will have to show what orthography is in use, by page.
  • Related: we don't have to tag titles by orthography. But sometimes we might have to create shortcuts reflecting other orthographies, so that people are redirected to the right page. That will take a lot of work, especially for OE shortcuts.
  • Other items on a page, such as section edit links, as well as the overall appearance of the left and side toolbars, do not change using a conversion script. On Kazakh Wikipedia they always appear in Cyrillic. On Serbocroatian, I think they appear as Latin/Cyrillic, because they've been programmed into that way. We could possibly manage Latin/Hebrew, choosing one Latin script only–probably the one we already have–but that will take some work, and if most people don't read OE, I'm not sure it's worth the work. I think trying to show more than one Latin version for that will just make things look far too complicated for your average reader. And we will just have to hope that your average editor will be able to manage.
I don't want to discourage this effort. But you know how much time you (or you and Maor X) have, and I don't have the language skills to help with things that aren't mechanical tasks. And remember that this is a quiet community right now. So unless you can recruit additional help from outside, I'm not sure how we can accomplish all of this, even if we want to. StevenJ81 (discusión) 16:57 2 Set 2015 (UTC)
I do want to clarify one thing: OF. When you say OF, are you referring to the French-based transcription? Or are you referring to Vikipedya:Ortografía Fonémica Escogida? Related: There seem to be a lot of competing help pages on different spelling systems—some of which are explicitly in modern Spanish—and eventually I need help getting them sorted out. StevenJ81 (discusión) 20:31 2 Set 2015 (UTC)

Hebrew OrthographyTrocar

And lastly, I wanted to clear out the conventions of how to write Judaeo-Spanish with the Hebrew alphabet. Many people think that it's written like the modern Hebrew language and that's where they err the most.

The 5 vowels a - e - i - o - u are written in the following way:

  • Middle of a word is the easiest: a is always an "alef", e/i is always a "yod" and o/u is always a "vav".
  • If a word begins with a vowel, it always begin with "alef":
    • A- simply an "alef"
    • E- or I- is an "alef+yod"
    • O- or U- is an "alef+vav"
  • And for the end of a word is the same as the middle of a word, except for -a, which a "ה" instead of an "א".

Examples: אלמה, אירמאנו, איסטורייה, אונזי, אונה

They are pronounced as "alma, ermano, istorya, onze, una".

About the consonants:

  • Vav is never used to give "v", instead bet with geresh is used: בֿ
  • Sounds of "dj" /d͡ʒ/ and "ch" /t͡ʃ/ are given with the same symbol: gimel with geresh: גֿ
    Later addition: note that this differs from the Hebrew standard, which is גֿ for j/dj but צֿ for ch. StevenJ81 (discusión) • 24 Adhar 5777 • 21:10 21 Mar 2017 (UTC)
  • Daleth with geresh gives the fricative (th) "d" sound, instead of the occlusive one: דידֿו (dedo).
  • Zayin with geresh gives the "zh" (or French "j") sound /ʒ/: זֿ
  • For the /k/ sound, except for obvious Hebrew origin words, always "kuf" is used, never "kaf".
  • Similarly always "tet" is used.
  • Pe with geresh is /f/.
  • For the consonant or the demi-consonant "y", double "yud" is used. However many instances "lamed yud yud" is used for a stronger "y" or a "y" that was originally a Castilian "ll" /ʎ/.

Examples: אמיגו, בוקה, בֿאזו, גאלייו, גֿינטי, גֿיקו, דולור, קאזה, אומברי, מושקה, אונו, מונדו, בֿיזינה, זֿורנאל, חאבֿיר, טאדֿרי, איגֿו, איזֿו, לייאבֿי, ליבֿרו, מאדֿרי, נו, סול, פאדֿרי, פֿרינטי, קאבֿיסה, רוזה, שארופי

But: חנוכה, ברכה, עינהרה, צדקה, תלמוד (i.e., Hebrew-origin words are written normally in Hebrew)

I hope it helps. --Universal Life (discusión) 20:54 1 Set 2015 (UTC)

It does. Thanks. :) An Ashkenazi like me can also be influenced by the Yiddish conventions, such as ע=/e/. But I have to say: we're not consistent here, either. Consider אנסיקלופידיה ... then look at the spelling in the graphic at the top left of this page, which starts with ע. We have -ia endings (Fransia, Alemania) that end in יה-, endings that end in ייה-, and for that matter endings that end in ײה-. (The latter is the yud-yud digraph, instead of two separate yuds.) And there are other inconsistencies, I'm sure.
In our current world, nobody has the time to fix all of that. If we rely on the tool for OE, though, we can decide and can be consistent.
By the way: "עינהרה": do you mean this to be the Hebrew phrase "עין הרע" ("evil eye")? :) StevenJ81 (discusión) 02:15 2 Set 2015 (UTC)
Yeap, that's the "evil eye"...we say "aynara" :)
Why not "עינהרע" then? :) ... Do you know who created the graphic in the top left corner? It would be good if we could change the ayin to alef up there, sooner rather than later. StevenJ81 (discusión) 16:59 2 Set 2015 (UTC)
Actually, you're the one who changed the alef to ayin, in January 2011. See Dosya:Wiki.png. Do you want to change it back, or was there a reason? StevenJ81 (discusión) 20:00 2 Set 2015 (UTC)
By the way, when I created {{Usador Administrador}} I kind of made it up as I went along. I just fixed some spelling based on what you sent me. But I just stole "temporario" and "investigue" from Spanish, and have no idea if they are really usable words in JS. By all means fix if you see fit. StevenJ81 (discusión) 02:43 3 Set 2015 (UTC)

Wikidata linking (copied from d:Wikidata:Bot requests#Ladino Wikipedia at 13:35 31 Jul 2015 (UTC))Trocar

Hi. I am an administrator on Ladino Wikipedia (lad:). I have an enormous number of items without Wikidata links. Some fall into pretty neat categories, so I'd like to start making some requests for help here. (On Ladino Wikipedia, our Template space is called "Xablón", while our Category space is called "Kateggoría".)

  • First request: Babel templates and categories. As you would expect, these have the format of:
    • Xablón:User langcode[-level code]
    • Kateggoría: User langcode[-level code]
where langcode is the two- or three-letter language code and level code is a digit between 0 and 5 for templates, 1 and 5 for categories. Level code is sometimes missing.

Thank you. StevenJ81 13:38, 29 July 2015 (UTC)

@StevenJ81: Are you familiar with the Babel extension (see meta:User language)? If you can convince the Ladino users to use that (it's already enabled on all Wikimedia projects), you don't need to have local templates, except for non-standard codes.
I've done all of the templates except for lad:Xablón:User kl, all of the categories appeared to already be linked. Some notes:
As far as I can tell, none of those are being used, so you could easily rename or delete them.
- (:m:User:)Nikki 07:02, 31 July 2015 (UTC)
Oh and lad:Xablón:User en-n looks like a broken version of lad:Xablón:User en and lad:Xablón:User sh-2/w/w/w/index.php looks like some sort of mistake. I haven't linked either of those either. - Nikki 07:09, 31 July 2015 (UTC)
Thank you very much, Nikki.
The problem with "convincing" everyone is that the wiki is not an extremely active one. It would not surprise me if many of the current user pages belong to people who don't come to ladwiki very often (if at all, any more). Getting in touch with them at all will be challenging. The only other option would be for me to import a bot to convert user pages myself, and I'm not so keen to do that. I'm reluctant to change things where there is not a problem, know what I mean?
I will deal with the issues you outlined. Again, thanks for your help. There are some others I will get at shortly (like {{=}} and similar). StevenJ81 12:16, 31 July 2015 (UTC)

End copy. StevenJ81 (discusión) 13:35 31 Jul 2015 (UTC)

Talk page deletionTrocar

Answered here. Thanks for deleting! Syum90 (discusión) 20:56 10 Ago 2015 (UTC)

Prinsipado del PindoTrocar

Dear StevenJ81, in order to add citations to the article, I will make some changes based on automatic translation using as simple and as few sentences as possible. When I do this, I will ask you to check it for language corrections. --FocalPoint (discusión) 10:07 11 Ago 2015 (UTC)

Oops, Google does not have translation to Ladino! So I left a note in Diskusyón:Prinsipado del Pindo. --FocalPoint (discusión) 10:30 11 Ago 2015 (UTC)

First urgent priorityTrocar

Hi Steven,

Chabi is one of the oldest admins, he discussed with me on facebook about the deletion of some stub articles who were written in a wrong language (basically either plain modern Spanish or modern Spanish, made to look like Ladino). I restaured and checked the page and it was just an entry in complete modern Spanish. So I deleted again.

I think it would be more proper to tag them with a "delete" template first so other admins (or the creator) can have a look, I'll tell him that too. I hope everything else is ok. :) --Universal Life (discusión) 19:15 26 Ago 2015 (UTC)

List of Months a la Franca and List of DaysTrocar

English OU AY Downloaded OF OT OE
January Jenero Djenero Enero Djenero Cenero גֿינירו
February Febrero Febrero Febrero Febrero Febrero פֿיברירו
March Março Marso Marso Marso Marso מארסו
April Abril Abril Avril Abril Abril אבריל
May Mayo Mayo Mayo Mayo Mayo מאײו
June Junio Djunyo Djunio Djunio Cunyo גֿונײו
July Julio Djulyo Djulio Djulio Culyo גֿולײו
August Agosto Agosto Ogosto Agosto Agosto אגוסטו
September Setiembre Setyembre Septembre Setiembre Setyembre סיטײמברי
October Ochobre Ochobre Oktubre Otchobre Oçobre אוגֿוברי
November Noviembre Novyembre Novembre Noviembre Novyembre נובֿײמברי
December Diziembre Dizyembre Desembre Diziembre Dizyembre דיזײמברי
English OU AY Downloaded OF OT OE
Sunday Alhadh Alhad Alhat Alhad Alhad אלחד
Monday Lunes Lunes Lunes Lunes Lunes לוניס
Tuesday Martes Martes Martes Martes Martes מארטיס
Wednesday Miércoles Myerkoles Mierkoles Mierkoles Myerkoles מײרקוליס
Thursday Juğeves Djugeves Djueves Djugeves Cugeves גֿוגיבֿיס
Friday Viernes Vyernes Viernes Viernes Vyernes ּבֿײרניס
Saturday Shabbath Shabad Shabat Chabad Şabad שבת

Salud, pessetas y fuerças a las castañetas! --Universal Life (discusión) 09:41 2 Set 2015 (UTC)

Something about castanets or trumpets?
But ... the one calendar source I did find was a calendar from ANL and Ben-Gurion University, presumably in AY(?), and it provided what I put in the additional column above. If they are using that, notwithstanding the traditional pronunciation, shouldn't I use that (for AY)?
I'm also a little surprised that OU (and OF, if based on French) would omit the "p" from "Se[p]tiembre". It appears in Latin, modern French (but silent) and modern Spanish (also silent?), so it seems part of the word history. That's probably why it appears in the version I downloaded, even though it is not phonetic. StevenJ81 (discusión) 19:55 2 Set 2015 (UTC)
It's just a slang expression that my grandpa says sometimes when he's cheerful "Health, money and strength to the castanets" :) --Universal Life (discusión) 09:28 7 Set 2015 (UTC)
Funny, that. According to eswiki, a castañeta is a sort of fish. What we call "castanet" in English, they call castañuela. But in Aragonese, castanyetas are castanets. And in Cebuano (a Filipino language), a castañeta is a cornet. StevenJ81 (discusión) 19:02 7 Set 2015 (UTC)

Hebrew CalenderTrocar

As you asked to me on email the Hebrew months' name in OF and OT, I'll give you 12 of them in all of the 4 Latin scripts :)

Ebreo (OU) Ebreo (AY) Ebreo (OF) Ebreo (OT) Span
Nissán Nisan Nissan Nisan March-April
Iyyar Iyar Iyar Iyar April-May
Siván Sivan Sivan Sivan May-June
Tammuz Tamuz Tamuz Tamuz June-July
Av Av Av Av July-August
Elul Elul Elul Elul August-September
Tishrí Tishri Tichri Tişri September-October
Ḥeshván Heshvan Hechvan Heşvan October-November
Kislev Kislev Kislev Kislev November-December
Teveth Teved Teved Teved December-January
Shevat Shevat Chevat Şevat January-February
Adhar Adar Adar Adar February-March

Btw, please don't use two "vav"s for Heshvan, only one vav.

PS. I'm half-sleepin' --Universal Life (discusión) 20:41 10 Set 2015 (UTC)

I don't intend to leave two "vav's" in Heshvan; it's a short-term measure, and I hope to get past it by the time Heshvan actually starts. But there's a chance I might not make it by this year's Heshvan. I assume all Hebrew months are written in their normal (Hebrew) manner, right? StevenJ81 (discusión) 21:12 10 Set 2015 (UTC)


I have already voted for your candidature. Nice to meet you. --Katxis (discusión) 10:26 16 Set 2015 (UTC)

Main Page Interwiki LinksTrocar

Hi, Universal Life and Katxis (and anyone else who wants to comment). I thought it would be useful to modify the interwiki links on the main page(s), as is done on a number of other Wikipedias. So I created a template for this purpose, currently at User:StevenJ81/sandbox/MainPageInterwikis. The criteria by which I included or omitted languages went something like this:

  1. Hebrew and Spanish first, because they are the main languages JS speakers will understand besides JS. (Let me know if any other language, like Portugese or Turkish, deserves favored status.)
  2. Mediterranean and south Baltic languages, construed fairly generously.
  3. Other European languages representing the largest wikis (English, German, etc.). I did not include Vietnamese or Filipino languages, because I just didn't think there would be that much interest here. If that is unreasonable bias, let me know.
  4. Yiddish (the other Jewish-language Wikipedia).

Right now, that template generally has "unwanted" links commented out. So if there are languages missing, please feel free to fix up as you see fit, or ask me to do that. When we're done, I'll use this on all five home pages, along with magic word noexternallanglinks and a piece of javascript code someone gave me to add a link to "All languages" on Meta. StevenJ81 (discusión) 16:36 16 Set 2015 (UTC)

Hi Steven, that's a good idea.
Although Modern Spanish is not the second most spoken/understood language of JS speakers. JS is mostly spoken in Israel and then in Turkey. The first 3 languages among JS speakers are clearly: Hebrew, Turkish and French. (All languages = Todas las linguas; Other languages = Otras linguas) I strongly think that the 12 most important languages (the ones that should come first) for the JS speakers around the world are:
  1. Hebrew
  2. Turkish (the biggest community derives from Turkey)
  3. French
  4. Spanish
  5. English
  6. Bulgarian (second biggest community derives from Bulgaria)
  7. Arabic
  8. Serbo-Croatian
  9. Greek
  10. Portuguese
  11. Aragonese
  12. Italian

--Universal Life (discusión) 21:49 16 Set 2015 (UTC)

Hi, UL. If we're really going to limit this to 12 (13, actually, because I will add back in "Simple English", which is separate from "English"), then I suggest we either go back to alphabetical order or Hebrew first, then alphabetical order. The reason I pulled any out before was that I thought from a list of about 30 languages or so it was worth putting the most important ones up top. But from only 12, they're all accessible. (BTW: the reason your template doesn't work yet is that you have to add {{noexternallanglinks}} to the page, or else it will just call the iw links from Wikidata on top of yours. MedyaViki:Interwiki config-sorting order clearly doesn't work on links that are called from Wikidata. Maybe they would work on your template, even if the languages there were all in alphabetical order. Don't know.
My thought about Modern Spanish was not so much that it is a language all JS speakers are fluent in as much as it is a language that many/most could piece together to some extent because they speak JS. Is that wrong? StevenJ81 (discusión) 01:46 17 Set 2015 (UTC)


Hi Steven,

I think we need a glossary here for all WP terms. I'm about to start one - I've plenty on user pages on different Wikimedia Projects, but this one I'm officially creating in a non-user space. I just couldn't decide whether it should be under Vikipedya: namespace or Ayudo: namespace. I'm going to create many small dictionaries (as English to JS, JS-English, Spanish-JS etc.) What do you say? --Universal Life (discusión) 21:06 24 Set 2015 (UTC)

Question is: is it better to create many small dictionaries or one table with all the key terms in the main languages? I'm not sure on that. I don't think it matters too much which namespace, and until/unless you need two different pages, I'd probably redirect one to the other anyway. There are already so many odds-and-ends of pages like that here (example 1example 2) that you should probably compile what is valuable in them, and then get rid of everything else. It's been confusing to me to see all these pages and wonder what I should look at. StevenJ81 (discusión) 21:14 24 Set 2015 (UTC)
We think similarly. While writing the question above, I was writing you the same question you made..should it be one table? But I deleted it. I think, in the future we'll have one table, but for now, as it'll be very helpful for all users who don't properly speak JS, I think I should compile English-to-JS and Spanish-to-JS. And yes, I was just thinking that afterwards, I should clean those messy half-made pages...which I admit, I'm responsible of. Thanks. I'm going with the Vikipedya namespace. --Universal Life (discusión) 21:19 24 Set 2015 (UTC)
Works for me. Turkish-to-JS, too, if you think appropriate. I don't think I'd go farther than that, yet.
Just took care of the template on Wikitionary. I will also create {{Nombre-pl-lad}} for words that are inherently plural, and OE versions, as well. StevenJ81 (discusión) 21:38 24 Set 2015 (UTC)


Yes, you can remove the rights from the accounts Chabi and Chabi1 as I cannot use them anymore. --Katxis (discusión) 13:38 25 Set 2015 (UTC)

Katxis: I made that request at Meta. Thanks. (I strongly suggest not to edit at anwiki without permission, because I don't want you to look like you're trying to evade a block.) StevenJ81 (discusión) 15:06 25 Set 2015 (UTC)
I know. I had a lot of problems there. The issue is that I didn't wnat to use my first account in another computer because it was shared with other people, that is why I created the other one. Thank you for your help. --Katxis (discusión) 09:13 26 Set 2015 (UTC)
Katxis, no problem. Glad to help. It's all taken care of now; the Chabi and Chabi1 accounts have had their administrator and bureaucrat rights removed. StevenJ81 (discusión) 03:27 27 Set 2015 (UTC)


Shalom. Do you have a Facebook account? Universal Life and I communicate one with each other in there. I've checked Marrovi's contributions but I will continue with it in four hours time. --Katxis (discusión) 13:36 14 Ocho 2015 (UTC)

Shalom, Katxis. I actually don't. (I've been very concerned that if I ever start in on Facebook I'll disappear, never to return.) He and I communicate by email, and occasionally by WhatsApp. StevenJ81 (discusión) 13:43 14 Ocho 2015 (UTC)
OK. I will ask him for your contact then. --Katxis (discusión) 13:45 14 Ocho 2015 (UTC)
@Katxis and Universal Life: Excellent. Thanks.
(I pinged UL also, both to warn him you would ask, and also to show you both that I imported the "ping" template here. But "ping" is the only alias that works on this wiki, not "reply to" or any other.) StevenJ81 (discusión) 13:49 14 Ocho 2015 (UTC)


I think that Navbox and nabvox generic are the same as one redirects to the other in the English Wikipedia. --Katxis (discusión) 19:02 16 Ocho 2015 (UTC)

@Katxis: Well, you just created Navbox generic, so that's why I'm asking. I'll just turn it into a redirect to Navbox. שבת שלום. StevenJ81 (discusión) 19:04 16 Ocho 2015 (UTC)


Don't worry, I made the changes using my account. --Katxis (discusión) 16:58 21 Ocho 2015 (UTC)

No, Katxis, I meant I could have an oversighter hide the IP from the first change, when you were an IP. StevenJ81 (discusión) 17:13 21 Ocho 2015 (UTC)


The reason why I reverted those changes was that the user had written non objective information i.e. presenting Catalan independence as the right and "obvious" political path that Catalonia should take. But you are right, I should have written the reason in the summary. --Katxis (discusión) 09:56 25 Ocho 2015 (UTC)

Right, Katxis. And you also need to write on the person's user page that we don't accept propaganda. StevenJ81 (discusión) 13:53 26 Ocho 2015 (UTC)


Hello. Just in case you haven't seen it, I've replied to your question at my Meta talk page. Green Giant (discusión) 00:49 30 Ocho 2015 (UTC)


Salom karo Steves,

Li sento muncho por algunos de los artikolos ke tengo echo, ama ay menester en una Ansiklopedya de aver varias informasiones diferentes kuanto a syertos temas. En eshemplo; Bíblia i Muevo Testamento no son la mizma, es emportante deshar klaro a los ke meldan, tenemos ke eksplikar sovre bíblia i muevo testamento, bíblia kristiana i ebrea. Ivrit o ibrit, lo meti porke ni todos los avlantes de Djudeo-espanyol avlan ivrit, entonse lo meti para los ke no konosen tal forma pueda konoser i entender ke es solamente una pronunsia diferente a Ivrit. Kuanto al artikolo Torah i Torá, lo sento muncho, izi porke no teniya konosimiento ke ya aviya un artikolo nombrado Torá.

Saludos,. (discusión) 18:01 15 Nov 2015 (UTC)

Shalom to you, dear I'm pretty sure I understood your message. If you need me to respond in Hebrew or Spanish I will. (It's a separate question how someone who does not really speak JS has come to be administrator here. That's an explanation for a different time.)
I have no trouble with articles like Muevo Testamento and others that distinguish between Jewish and Christian views of the Bible. I'm mainly worried about true duplicate articles like Ibrit and Lingua ebrea or Torah and Torá. Here is what I would hope you could do:
  1. Before you start an article, do a search for it, using some different possible spellings and even descriptions. (We allow at least four different Latin spelling systems here, plus alef-bet. See La Primera Hoja.) If there is an article there, then certainly add alternative spellings:
    Lingua ebrea (o ivrit or ibrit) ...
    ...and feel free to create a redirect from your preferred spelling. (If you do not know what a "redirect" is, let me know.) But don't create a duplicate article, unless it is in Hebrew script.
  2. Similarly, don't automatically change the spelling of certain words in other articles. If you think they will actually not be understandable to some speakers of JS, then add your spelling in parentheses. But don't automaticallly change what's there. If you have particular questions about what spelling to use, ask Usador:Universal Life or Usador:Katxis.
  3. Please "merge" the new articles you added into existing articles. Again, I don't mean Muevo Testamento into Biblia: For that I added a reference link, which was appropriate. I mean articles that are really the same (Torah and Torá). Once you have done that, we will create redirects in place of your articles, so the spelling is captured and the reader is directed to the right place.
I hope you can understand my response. Thank you for listening to my suggestions. StevenJ81 (discusión) 14:50 16 Nov 2015 (UTC)
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