Diferensya entre trocamientos de "Diskusyón:La Primera Hoja"
Contenido eliminado Contenido añadido
Sin resumen de edición |
|||
Liña 6:
{{ping|Marrovi}} Are you sure you have this right? I'm pretty sure the spelling in the French orthography is Judéo-espagnol (or at least Judeo-espagnol), not -español). [[Usador:StevenJ81|StevenJ81]] ([[Messaje de Usador:StevenJ81|discusión]]) • 21 Av 5776 • 15:59 25 Ago 2016 (UTC)
:{{ping|Universal Life|Maor X}} I really need your help. I have no idea whether the edits that [[User:Marrovi]] is making to the OF version of La Primera Oja reflect OF orthography. Thanks. [[Usador:StevenJ81|StevenJ81]] ([[Messaje de Usador:StevenJ81|discusión]]) • 22 Av 5776 • 02:47 26 Ago 2016 (UTC)
::{{ping|Marrovi|StevenJ81}}Dear Marrovi and Stephen, unlike the AY and the United Orthography, there is no fixed French orthography for Judaeo-Spanish. The same word could be spelled with a "c", "k" or "qu". On the one end of the spectrum, there's a tendency to write the language as if it was French ("ou" instead of "u", "é" instead of "e" etc.) and on the other hand there are JS-adapted versions of it (where "u" is used instead of "ou" and "e" instead of "é"). The first one is found to be used more in personal letters etc. and the second is used more officially such as in books, journals. Moreover one of the institutions adapting the French style is Vidas Largas; they use "u" and "e", on top of it they use "k" systematically to overcome ambuiguity to when use "c", when "k" and when "qu". However within all this variety, there are several rules that everyone within the range of this French-style spectrum follows naturally, such as the English or Spanish "ch" is ALWAYS given by "tch" and English "sh" is ALWAYS given by "ch". Thus "Dexar/Deshar" is spelled ''Dechar'', "Muncho" is spelled ''Muntcho'' or ''Mountcho''. The Aki-Yerushalayim "dj" is also ALWAYS given by "dj", in fact AY has copied it from French Orthography (which is way much older than AY). Also, the Spanish "ñ" is given ALWAYS with "gn". Thus Judaeo-Spanish is written ''Judeo-Espagnol'' or ''Judéo-Espagnol''.
::I'd said that (especially writing the sound of /k/) there are no fixed rules, however there's a logic that most native speakers follow: The words such as "cuatro" and "cuando" is spelled usually as ''quatro'' and ''quando'' as in French they are "quattre" and "quand" respectively. Etymologically Latin "c" has turned into "ch" in French, whereas it has stayed as "c" (/k/) in Spanish and most speakers are "unknowingly" aware of it. Thus they spell ''caro'' for French "chère", ''camino'' for "chemin" etc. When it comes to words that don't have an etymological equivalent in French, there starts the ambiguity...such as the word "con" which is "avec" in French. I've seen that word written as both ''quon'', ''kon'' and ''con'' in French orthography...this is when most of the people hesitate in writing and they copy what they've seen the most. I could've said also hesitated as this ambuguity exists in French orthography since the 1850s. The thing is Vidas Largas adopted an all-around solution using only "k"..the problem is that most people, even if they adapt Vidas Largas style, they will still write quando, quatro, quinze. Thus some people choose the middle-ground and use only "k" when French equivalents do not exist...thus erases ambiguity.
::That was for the half-ambigous part, back to the part where rules apply: the cedilla. The letter "c" with cedilla, ''ç'' is used in French only before the front vowels (a, o, u) and never before (e, i). Thus French in French is ''Français'' pronounced [Fransé]], the cedilla is there so that it wouldn't get pronounced as [Franké]. However when the same root precedes "e", such as the country ''France'', there's no need and use of the cedilla...as the pronunciation is clear. The same applies in JS with French Orthography. So the cedilla in ''Françes'' is an hypercorrection, trying to make it look like ''Français''. I hope it helps :) --[[Usador:Universal Life|Universal Life]] ([[Messaje de Usador:Universal Life|discusión]]) 09:59 27 Ago 2016 (UTC)
| |||